“Vinicius wants to stay in Europe”

Flamengo pulled off a unique feat in 2025. The Brasileirão title and Copa Libertadores crown were the icing on the cake of a project that is only just beginning. If Filipe Luís was able to deliver it on the field, much of the groundwork had been laid in the boardroom by Luiz Eduardo Baptista – known simply as BAP. The club president has been one of the intellectual architects of the overhaul, with the landmark signing of Lucas Paquetá among his defining moves.

This is the first of a two-part interview AS conducted exclusively with the president in Rio de Janeiro.

You played a key role in renewing Filipe Luís’ contract. It was said at the time that you led negotiations with both Jorge Mendes and Filipe himself. What impact has he had on Flamengo’s recent history?

Filipe was developed in Europe. He spent many years at Atlético de Madrid, at Chelsea and even at Real Madrid. From an intellectual point of view, Filipe is above average. Secondly, he has always had an interest in the technical and tactical side. Filipe was already a coach while he was still a player. It was in his DNA. He had that ability.

We were very successful in that first full year in which he was Flamengo’s coach. The renewal involved a series of aspects, but the main one was that we wanted to continue together. I wanted to continue with Filipe and Filipe wanted to continue at Flamengo. We had to adjust some details. Some aspects. I don’t want to marry someone who asks me for a divorce six months later. My goal, my long-term vision, will always be Flamengo. I think about Flamengo today, tomorrow and 10 years from now.

-And Filipe?

Filipe does not think about Flamengo 10 years from now. His career may continue at Flamengo, but it may not. Therefore, his vision of the future does not necessarily coincide with Flamengo’s. That’s natural. That’s life. And we had to adjust those aspects first. And secondly, the financial aspects, which are natural when dealing with the contract of a coach of Filipe’s stature and importance to Flamengo.

All major negotiations, in one way or another, end with the approval or disapproval of the president. And to approve something, you have to listen to the story, listen to the conditions. When people say the president is involved… of course he should be! In every signing, in every major negotiation. Whether it’s a renewal, the sale of a player or the purchase of a player. It’s logical. With Filipe it was no different. In the end there were some details that both sides had to discuss. It was a natural negotiation.

-A lot of strange things happened, didn’t they? People were talking about the famous ‘loose ends’ of the negotiation.

It’s interesting that people say it took too long. Ten days. I have never made any fundamental decision in that period of time! I’ve never decided to change jobs in my life in 10 days. I’ve never changed houses in 10 days. I’ve never decided to get married or separated in 10 days. I’ve never decided to have a child in 10 days. But it takes 10 days and the world says: “Wow! It took too long. We’re at an impasse.”

What important thing do you do in your life in 10 days? But the world, and football in particular, moves at a faster pace. I understand everyone’s anxiety. And it happened during a period when there was nothing going on. No games. Nothing. So every day the same story about Filipe appeared in the media. That one called the other, but the other didn’t answer. Sometimes you can’t answer. You’re in the bathroom, in the shower, you didn’t respond, you couldn’t at that moment.

-What is your opinion about Filipe as a coach?

Filipe is a very professional young coach, very talented, and he has been very successful at Flamengo. With all due respect, do you think that if he were at another club that didn’t have Flamengo’s conditions, he would have had such a successful year and become champion? Maybe he would have had a sensational campaign.

In the first vote by Brazilian journalists, the best Brazilian coach last year was Mirassol’s coach, Rafael Guanaes. For the press, he had been the best coach. In my opinion, the best coach was Filipe Luís, because with all the challenges Flamengo faced, he was champion.

But for the market, relatively speaking, the best coach was Rafael Guanaes, because he didn’t have such a good team. He didn’t have such a good structure and he finished fourth. So who is the best coach? For Flamengo it is Filipe Luís. For Mirassol it is Rafael Guanaes. Rafael got the best out of what Mirassol had to give. And Filipe got the best out of what Flamengo had to give. Flamengo needs Filipe and Filipe needs Flamengo. It’s natural.

-Do you think Filipe will make the move to Europe when his contract ends? Or even before?

I see it this way: I live my life day by day. I understand that if today we do very well and better than yesterday, we will have a better future. I don’t know what will happen in the future, but I work every day to make Flamengo a winner. The more Flamengo wins, the harder it will be for those who are here to want to leave.

My job is to make the best always want to stay here for a long time. That’s what I can control. There is a part I cannot control. Time will tell.

Now, what I see very clearly is this: if someone had said two years ago that Flamengo would have the size it has today, the economic, financial and sporting power it has, perhaps all Brazilian journalists would have said: “They’re crazy! That will never happen.” And two years later it happened.

If someone had said a year ago that Flamengo would bring Lucas Paquetá back from England, nobody would have believed it. It’s easier for an ox to fly than for Flamengo to do what we have done. Six months ago, the South American press was very surprised by the signing of Samuel Lino because he cost $23 million. Everyone wondered how Flamengo could sign such a young player for that amount. Well, six months later we are bringing Lucas Paquetá for $45 million.

“Filipe has every right to think about Europe...”

Luiz Eduardo Baptista, president of Flamengo

I believe that, in the same way that Filipe can – and has every right to – think about Europe, why not have a European coach at Flamengo? If I can bring Lucas Paquetá, why couldn’t I bring Klopp? Why couldn’t I bring another coach? Today what could happen is this: just as Filipe might say no to a European club because he doesn’t want to leave for just any club, a European coach might say he doesn’t want to leave Europe for Flamengo.

But it is obvious that we will have financial and economic conditions. This world is changing very fast. I work day after day to make the decision to leave Flamengo difficult for those who are here and, for those who want to come, an easy one.

-From the moment you became president, you made it clear that Lucas Paquetá was your first major objective – the prodigal son. How did negotiations unfold?

I believe that big decisions are never only personal or only professional. The more experience you have, the older you get, the more responsibilities you have. When you are young you have no worries. When you are older you have family, children, responsibilities. Decisions become more complex.

Lucas Paquetá went through a significant personal challenge. Thinking about being in your country, where you feel good, in order to exercise your profession, is important. There was an opportunity for Flamengo to bring Lucas Paquetá back to the city, the country where he was born, the club where he was developed.

Lucas Paquetá is from Rio de Janeiro, he is a Flamengo fan, he came through Flamengo’s academy. But if he had wanted, he could have remained in Europe. He received offers from other countries. He could have stayed in Europe or elsewhere in the European community. There were three or four offers for him.

He made a personal decision. Every choice implies giving something up. I am absolutely certain that Paquetá could have stayed in Europe earning more money than here. But perhaps he would miss his family, the Brazilian environment, the warmth of Flamengo’s supporters.

Paquetá is 28 years old and at Flamengo he can win many titles. He has earned fame, success and money. But I hope that now he wins titles here. He has earned money and fame, but recognition and titles are what matter in Brazil.

This story of the prodigal son that you mention can happen with other athletes. Flamengo has sold €50 million worth of athletes over the past 10 years. There are several Flamengo players around the world. Even in Spain.

-How were the negotiations with West Ham? They wanted to keep Paquetá...

Our relationship with West Ham was very good. They had a very clear vision of what they wanted. You’re right, they wanted to keep Paquetá until the end of the season. We respected that, we respected West Ham’s timeline.

We would have liked Paquetá to be here now, because the season in Brazil is starting. If Paquetá arrived mid-year, he would arrive at the end of the European season, he would probably go to the World Cup with Brazil, after the World Cup he would ask for vacation, return out of shape in September, only play in October and then the Brazilian season would end.

So what we said was: “Look, for us it’s important that Paquetá comes now.” That’s why we paid more. Because West Ham said that under those conditions they would not accept our proposal. So it was an adjustment. A little here, a little there. It was not a simple transaction. But we have maximum respect for West Ham. They were correct and direct. It was a good experience. It’s not a small transfer, so many details have to be considered.

-It was said that West Ham kept some clauses in case he returns to Europe.

Yes. There are clauses establishing that if Paquetá is sold, West Ham will receive compensation. I think that is absolutely legitimate. If I were in the owner’s place at West Ham, I would think that if Paquetá plays just one year in Brazil and we sell him for $75 million, West Ham would be harmed.

I understood that their request was fair. I told them that was not our intention, but I understand their concern. So we had to negotiate because if tomorrow a $107 million offer arrives for Paquetá, I will consider a possible sale – provided Paquetá accepts. He could say: “I came back from England to Brazil, I don’t want to leave.” That’s not a problem for Flamengo.

But it is also fair that West Ham does not lose money in this transaction. Many details were negotiated over time. I have no doubt that if it were not for the player’s desire to return to Brazil, even if Flamengo had the $45 million or even more, the deal would not have been possible. It was a happy ending because West Ham agreed to sell.

-At Paquetá’s presentation, José Boto spoke about a possible return of Vinícius Jr. What is there beyond what the sporting director said?

That’s a journalist’s question (laughs). Vinícius Júnior had a moment when he played with Paquetá at Flamengo. I think it was 2016 or 2017. They played together in the youth categories and in the first team for about six months. They have a very good personal relationship. They are friends. They share the same agency, Roc Nation Sports Brazil.

There is a big difference between the moment in life of Lucas Paquetá and the moment in life of Vinícius Júnior. Paquetá has someone waiting for him at home every day. He has a family. Vini does not have someone waiting at home. They are different stages.

Vinícius is not a possibility for Flamengo. I am sure that if there were a transaction involving Vinícius Júnior, it would involve figures far above what we paid for Paquetá. That possibility does not exist. Not yet. Flamengo still cannot.

-Boto commented that this possibility would arise if Vini did not sign a new contract with Real Madrid…

Yes, but Vinícius Júnior wants to stay in Europe. It is a different moment, as we just discussed, about each person’s timing. Whether because of Vini’s will or the financial figures involved, it is more a conversation for imagination, for supporters.

That is the reality. Vinícius Jr. is always welcome. When he comes to Brazil, he goes to the Maracanã, he goes to Flamengo’s box, he has friends here. We love Vini. But he is not yet within Flamengo’s reach. Not yet.

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